Finally finished Arnika and still not happy!

[KraGorn]

At the fourth time of asking, including one abandoned attempt when I found the mage couldn't change to a bishop at level 2 because I'd overlooked SEN , I finally managed to finish Arnika ... with one question which I posted to the spoiler forum.

The party is this:

Dracon Rogue
Felpurr Samurai, given 1 level of mage at 2
Mook Ranger, my scout
Hobbit Ranger, given 1 level of alchemy at 2
Elf Bishop, changed from mage at 2, doing mage/psi
Dwarf Priest

The rogue's 8, the rest 7.

tdierikx you were right, the rogue "rocks", using a couple of poison daggers he's doing very nice damage and the breath of course is wonderful.  <br>
The samurai started a bit slow, but is now getting three and sometimes 4 attacks and also doing some nice ranged damage with a bow even though I've not given him any points so he's just got 8 from experience.

I love the pair of rangers, only had a couple of instakills up till now but one on each flank is great.  <br>
Raising the bishop is okay, but I think I already know why Merkin prefers a straight mage, having to avoid spell picks and not intending to use PP as a spellbook acquisition tool, is a bit of a pain; I've only found maybe 4 or 5 books and can't afford to buy any which means she has few spells of any great use; Insanity is currently her "piece de resistance" with Frost also doing some nice damage at times.

HOWEVER the priest concerns me. He is okay now he's got Armorplate and I've found Guardian Angel a Godsend once or twice when I got surrounded and used it to save him and the bishop, but he seems to spend lots of time twiddling his thumbs after running out of SPs or not having any need of them, I've pumped his magic side so he's a pitiful fighter and can barely hit anything with a sling and gets 1 or 2 damage once in a blue moon.

Right now I still can't make up my mind if hybrids' magic is useful.  The Sam's mage and Ranger's alchemy skills are of course still totally lame, but I have a yearning to replace the priest with a Valk, put her in the middle and wait for her to get some divine spells (the Valk seems to be the easiest hybrid to raise on magic because she only really needs two skills raising for her fighting leaving 3 points for magic) ... although that would mean diluting the bishop even further perhaps, or else having to go with a Psi or Alchemist for early healing ... but then I'm stuck with a specialist mage who won't have many of the really useful/vital spells later on  

Sorry for this long ramble, please feel free to ignore it totally  , if nothing else it helps get my thoughts in order.

[judee]

I think (my opinion, of course   ) that if you want to rely on magic, you should create a group specifically for that.

Fighters should be fighters. When you start trying to make them a jack of all trades, adding magic points, it diminishes their capabilities as fighters.

My recommendation would be to forget about magic, except for the priest and Bishop and develop your fighters for that purpose - fighting.

Both the priest and Bishop will be better appreciated in the later game. When you can cast a "heal all" or throw up an Element Shield, believe me, you will be glad of having them. I know bishops are a pain, but they are worth the wait.

And, imo, the two for magic is enough. When you've maxed out points in the fighters strong areas, it will be soon enough to add a bit of magic. Won't be needed that much by then.

But if you want to play magic, them make it a full magical effort. Believe me, it's a fun group to play!

judee

[KraGorn]

I see your point about diluting a fighter's stats for the sake of giving them some magic ability, but this is the only way I see of playing without a dedicated priest who, for me, is just dead weight 50% of the time. Once he's cast Magic Screen and couple of other pre-combat buffs he really isn't doing much  

[vesselle]

sorry, but i can't live without a priestess. if it wasnt for her, my bards and gadgies would be sleeping thru 3/4 of the fights, and no one would have any protective shields.

i got down on my knees and thanked goddess the day she got Heal All and Rest All. she is NOT a fighter or a tank. she is NOT a fireball flinging nutcase either. she is my DOCTOR. keeping everyone fit and trim for fighting. we couldn't operate at peak efficiency  without her.

as a matter of fact, everytime i check her stats, i purr when i see Kills: 3....... if it turns into Kills: 4, i begin to freak out, and have a good long private talk with her about paying attention to her duties.

but we all know i'm full of it

V***V

[Merkin]

gee, I'm 100% with you on this one, V***V.  I can't imagine life with out my puppy priest.  I think of him as my battlefield medic, sure, he's got a weapon, but if he has to use it, something has gone wrong with my strategy.  My Priest has WAY the lowest kills in the party, and should (though now that I've picked up Instant Death, he's starting to get a kill every battle or two)  But his prime job will ALWAYS be protection/healing/buffing.  He has SO many times made it possible for the party to waltz through a tough battle and come out laughing.

I think later today, I'm going to work on a "Perfect Priest" post, except I'm still wrestling with the balance between INT, SEN, and SPD.

[KraGorn]

Well it's 10:55 PM here, makes that what, 2:22 PM in your part of the world ... hopefully when I log-on in the morning your Perfect Priest will be here for me to read, I'm sorely in need of some education about how to raise one properly  ;D

[Spydah]

I have alwyas found the priest lacking, and go with a bishop specialty in Divinity. Works much better, no twiddling thumbs

Also, about the hybrid magic... methinks concentrate on fighting until you have maxed 2-5 skills (depends on class, such as close-combat, sword, critical strike...), THEN go for magik, as there is nothing else really usefull anyways. Ranged/Bow goes up plenty fast on thier own (unless ranger, then pump of course, or if primarily ranged party...)

Works fairly well that way, take a look at the SPOTLIGHT articles in the DB, 'splained a lot better there

[KraGorn]

Yes, I found Atlas' articles, they're too big to be just called "posts" , extremely useful but he rarely mentioned the hybrids' magic. Now, after admittedly only a tentative trial, I understand why: there magic is a bit of icing on the cake since there are too many other stats and skills to be dealt with.

The bishop's BIG problem is their painfully slow progression, I shall be reading Merkin's "Perfect Priest" with some interest before deciding

[Spydah]

Slow, yes, but I plan on taking mine current party of Drac Fighter, Drac Lord, Mook Sam, Mook Gadgetman, and 2 human Bishops to level 50, so slow is ok, I had better be used to it by then, hehe

[KraGorn]

I really can't believe ANYONE will get a character to level 50

Of course games like Diablo I in which the same "impossible" target existed were promptly played to death for months by that intrepid band determined to achieve the impossible.

I wish you luck, you're going to need it for the endless tedium of random battles to come.

Oh, BTW, why Humans for the bishops?  Conventional wisdom says Faeries or Elfs, so why be original?

[Runiel]

KraGorn said:

Oh, BTW, why Humans for the bishops?  Conventional wisdom says Faeries or Elfs, so why be original?

Well, I'm not Spydah but...

I usually use a Faerie Bishop, but if I have a second one in my group then Human is my choice. The Human Bishop is more balanced in the stats and has more STR, VIT and SEN than an Elf one, so they have more stamina and hit points, can carry more, are faster and can usually fight better. Yep, I said fight. There are some very nice weapons for spellcasters and while I don't pump up their combat skills I let them build by themselves, meaning that once in a while I let my Bishop dust off his staff and whack at a thing or two.

The Elf Bishop does have some added Mental and Air resistances, but in the long run I always found those starting resists highly overrated (not only in Bishops, but in most characters), by the time I get into the mid-game my parties usually have enough trinkets to overcome any resistance shortcomings. The other main difference is in INT and PIE, but it only puts the Human about one level behind the Elf to max them (to get to Power Cast/Iron Will) so the trade off is minimal.