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Post by kiwi on Jan 14, 2002 13:16:50 GMT -5
Samurai magic is really easy to build up. Give your samurai one level of mage before level 5... then watch it grow. Use it to fight. My samurai hasn't missed any new spells as a result of not having enough skills. Having a second fireball is excellent.
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Post by KraGorn on Jan 14, 2002 13:34:30 GMT -5
As I see it the Samurai's the hardest hybrid to build to use magic, barring perhaps the Ninja about whom I know nothing. The problem is that to make him an excellent fighter, his first and foremost use, you need to pump at least 4 secondary skills, leaving no chance whatsoever to put points into magic. So you'll only have what points you get when you give him that level of mage plus experience. I can't recall what spell picks you get when you change, my level 8 Sam has Light and Energy Blast in Fire, I chose fire because that's where the mage's most useful spells are from what I can see and read. I admit to having made a big mistake, I had him use a bow when ranged rather than energy bolt, but given his pathetic stock of SPs due to his PIE of only 30 then he'd no have got much practice. What am I missing here, since you seem convinced  |
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Post by vesselle on Jan 15, 2002 9:07:24 GMT -5
~~kragorn~~
to your earlier query about the thief's dagger .... yes, there is more than one available.
i got both mine early and use them constantly. they are on myles, who has very high speed.
i have another rogue in another group that i have been pumping dual wield on, and she uses B and a thief's dagger. since B is available so early, and i could uncurse things readily with my elven bishop, i had her swapping the two, from one hand to the other.
either way, she's about lvl 15 now, and i am happy with her performance in battle. i can't think of the numbers off hand, as i am playing the Magickal Mistresses currently, but even with the difference between hands, she still gets min. 3x backstab damage regularly.
and you know how you run into those speedy lil rat types who duck and dive when you fight them? well, she does that to them, too! i love it. her skills seem to be upping themselves quite nicely.
i really can't believe at times how well this game is designed. they truly put their heart into it. plus, the designers are darn smart guys. it seems to me they thought of every eventuality and planned for rpers doing crazy things with their chars ;D
V***V
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Post by kiwi on Jan 15, 2002 10:14:26 GMT -5
KraGorn - I found that the key to getting the samurai to have magical skills all lay in his taking a level as a mage and then practicing. When I took the level as a mage, I got the 5 bonus points in wizardry and all 4 realms. This is a huge jumpstart in learning magic. I then only used magic for ranged attacks... giving him the B sword later to force the issue. I gave him 3 points in wizardry when I became a mage and then 6 points in combat skills. I only took energy blast as a spell. I saved my spell picks for missile sheild later.
By using spells as often as possible, he's been able to stay right on track for spells. He doesn't have tons of extra skill points, like my mage, but he hasn't not been able to learn new spells at level up.
It's interesting that you found the ninja's magic harder to build up. I think that my ninja's magic skills are 10 points higher then my lord or samurai. Whenever I get out of battles, I use only my ninja and lord to heal people. This ups their skills very quickly. In addition, having your ninja make potions helps with his alchemy skill. (I gave both the ninja and lord a level of achemy and priest respectively).
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Post by KraGorn on Jan 15, 2002 11:43:20 GMT -5
i got both mine early and use them constantly. they are on myles, who has very high speed. i have another rogue in another group that i have been pumping dual wield on, and she uses B and a thief's dagger. since B is available so early, and i could uncurse things readily with my elven bishop, i had her swapping the two, from one hand to the other. |
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Post by 'Guest' on Jan 16, 2002 9:45:33 GMT -5
It seems to me that everyone thinks of a samurai as a fighter with some wizardry skills. IMHO a samurai is about 60% as effective as a fighter in melee, but can be about 80% as effective as a wizard. Right now I am trying to run a samurai more like a wizard. Started as a human mage, switched to samurai at first level up, and after getting wizardry back I put all level up skill points in wizardry and realm skills. I must admit that this version is a slow starter, but at level 9 she could throw a useful fireball. If I end up likeing this strategy, I may try it in a 2 samurai, 2 monk, ninja, Lord party.
On a seperate note, I have tried the 5 man front line strategy, and it was OK, but has anyone tried a 3 left/ 3 center party. In theory all characters would be able to hit enemies 3/4 around the group.
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Post by kiwi on Jan 16, 2002 10:07:12 GMT -5
I run 3 left, 3 center, 2 at the back... and when I don't have NPCs, 2 left, 2 center. I am able to engage just about everything with all 6 characters. in addition, If I'm in a fight and the monsters move during the round, I will change my party config before the end of the round, so I don't have to waste time with a move a the begining of the next round.
As for the Samurai as a fighter/wizard, I completely agree. How did you deal with outfitting your samurai when he switched from a mage to a samurai? I would highly reccomend doing the same switch, however, do it at level 5. It takes 1200 XP for a mage vs. 1400 for a samurai for their first levels (don't know the numbers exactly.) For their 5th levels, it takes like 20,000 XP for the mage and 28,000 for the samurai. You will get to level 6 much faster if you take your mage level at level 5. That said, if you have a ninja in your group, you should give him/her a level of alchemy at level 5 and the samurai a mage level at level 4, for the same reason, the ninja benefits even more because it takes even more XP for a ninja to level up.
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Post by Spydah on Jan 16, 2002 10:49:25 GMT -5
60%?!?!?! Wow, I must be really good then, as my Sam is better than my Fig right now. More kills, more damage, more swings, more attacks, and spells (not that I use them much ;p).
Methinks the Sam can go either way, 'pends on what you give them equip/level-up point wise.
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Post by Merkin on Jan 16, 2002 11:08:41 GMT -5
Atlus7 had a really good breakdown of Sams, and how to build it three different ways (magic-heavy, combat-heavy, and balanced) I think Spydah has it on his website.
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Post by kiwi on Jan 16, 2002 11:11:24 GMT -5
My Sam just doesn't have ranged attacks, which isn't a big miss since he can't use lots of the bows and cross bows or modern weapons in the game. My Sam does tons of attacks, they just don't hit for as much on each hit. You don't see two 70 point hits... instead you end up with 5 30 point hits. I'll take the 5 30 point hits any day. But I love starting out with a fireball... doing 20 damage or so to everyone in it's path. 20x20 enemies is a hellofalot more damage at range then a fighter is ever going to be able to do... and add to that INSTAKILLS!
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Post by 'Guest' on Jan 16, 2002 11:13:15 GMT -5
Kiwi:
Thanks for the info on formations. I am going to experment with them tonight.
The reason I dual at first level up is because a samurai is easier to play in the early game and level 2-5 is a lot shorter time to be unable to practice spells than level 6-9.
For equipment I started the party with a samurai than replaced her with a mage without the additional equipment. The mage can wear all of the starting samurai armor. It's a cheap trick, but makes the early game much more enjoyable.
Spydah:
Samurais can match (or better) fighters for damage after Arnika, but this weapon is the highest damage weapon in the game for a samurai. The not so easy to find samurai only sword later in the game will not deal as much damage per round (but INSTANT KILLs much better). Later in the game, fighters will consistantly deal 2x the amount of melee damage with the best weapons.
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Post by Telemont on Dec 17, 2003 21:22:02 GMT -5
Personally I actually had very good success with a Bow using Samurai, especially of the Elven Variety. As you pump up your Senses skill you are not only growing organically towards Eagle Eye, but beefing up an influencing statistic for Critical Strike. Now, critical strike only adds about 4-5% chance to take someone out but a little known fact about the samurai is that they can use almost every Non-Ranger, Non-Crossbow in the game.
This drops them out of the running for Triple Shots, but it lets them use the Hunter Bow for a potent 5% kill on top of your existing critical strike, and if you ported over from Wiz7 or don't mind cheating to simulate porting over, you can use the Elven Bow, and you can always stock up on Siege Arbalests or snoop out Strongbows later in the game when you have more stats to go around.
Some of you might be thinking that you might as well go with a Ranger, and I can't argue that, but for those of you who want to play Mage-Rangers, it's a very valid option.
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